KK: Do you think when people make these statements this displays their subconscious bias?

TW: I completely agree. We all have subconscious biases when we look at patients. That’s how the world works. Our mind works in stereotyping people, and that’s how we survive.

KK: I think if people are open to considering other people’s perspectives, and you bring it to their attention that there is a gap between what they are thinking or saying and what others are thinking or saying, then they have an intellectual choice to decide how to conduct themselves. However, when there is subconscious bias, there is not awareness of any choice to be made. First, we need to recognize subconscious biases exist and then make certain that those biases do not impact the way we interact with others.

TW: Right, absolutely. Diversity and inclusion are not just a numbers game or to make a politically correct workplace. I think that women and minorities are able to bring diversity to the table and treat patients, maybe, in a way that a homogeneous group could not.

KK: In your professional roles, can you give me a sense, on average on a daily basis, how often you experience some sort of issue with diversity and inclusion? That could be either an insensitive comment, a decision made that is not representative of a population you are working with, or other examples.

TW: I don’t think it’s necessarily about outward discrimination or outward biases, but it does happen. I was in the pediatric ED and I introduced myself to a 3-year-old and I said, “Hi, my name is Dr. Wu. What is your name?” He said, “You can’t be a doctor. You’re a girl.” You speak to any female or a lot of young doctors, and you’ll find that they may be mistaken for a patient care assistant, nurse, or registration clerk. Every day I’m aware of it in everything that I say and everything that I do. The way that I dress, the way that I carry myself, my hand motions, how I speak, whether I’m too aggressive or not aggressive enough, whether I’m smiling or not smiling, my type of shoes—it’s everything.

KK: You’re obviously a strong, successful female emergency physician who seems unaffected by such influences, but look at all the things you do. Is it possible that over time you develop a certain acceptance and tolerance of this issue because you have no other choice?